From ChatGPT 10/19/2024 with explanatory supplements by Ross Nichols taken for my transcript in DropBox from his lesson on Youtube titled Did Moses Write the Torah. See embed below.
Q: What scriptures shows where Moses did not write the Pentateuch?
Several pieces of evidence within the Pentateuch itself suggest that Moses may not have written all of it, despite traditional belief. Scholars have identified these elements based on inconsistencies, anachronisms, and passages that seem unlikely to have been authored by Moses. Here are a few key examples:
1. Death of Moses
Deuteronomy 34 describes Moses’ death and burial, which would be difficult for him to have written. This chapter recounts how Moses died on Mount Nebo, was buried by God, and how the people mourned for him. If Moses were the sole author, it is unlikely he could have written about events after his own death.
“So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.” — Deuteronomy 34:5-6
2. Third-Person References
Throughout the Pentateuch, Moses is frequently referred to in the third person. For example:
Numbers 12:3: “Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.”
Such passages would be unusual if Moses were the author, as it would be strange for him to describe himself this way.
[See more third-person references below in the response to another question.]
3. Anachronisms
There are also details that reflect a time period later than Moses’ lifetime, suggesting later authorship or editing. For instance:
- Genesis 12:6 mentions the Canaanites being in the land “at that time,” suggesting it was written when the Canaanites were no longer present.
- Ross Nichols said – “…the writer is telling us at that time, the Canaanites were still in the land. But we know from the biblical narratives that the whole purpose of the conquest, which took place after the death of Moses, was meant, although it didn’t succeed, to eradicate the Canaanites from the land. So this is written at another time.”
- Genesis 14:14 mentions “Dan” as a location, but the city of Dan was not named that until after the time of Moses (Judges 18:29).
- Genesis 36:31 refers to the kings of Edom reigning “before any king reigned over the Israelites,” which presupposes knowledge of the Israelite monarchy established much later.
- Ross Nichols said – “…there’s mention of a king’s list, the kings of Edom, and it says that these are the kings that reigned in Edom before Israel had a king. This seems to be suggesting that this text was written at a time when Israel did have a king, but it’s referring back to a time when Israel didn’t have a king.”
- Ross Adds:
- Deuteronomy 2:10-12 (The Emim—a large and numerous people, as tall as the Anakim—had formerly inhabited it. 11 Like the Anakim, they are usually reckoned as Rephaim, though the Moabites call them Emim. 12 Moreover, the Horim had formerly inhabited Seir, but the descendants of Esau dispossessed them, destroying them and settling in their place, as Israel has done in the land that the Lord gave them as a possession.) NRSV includes the parenthesis.
4. Variations in Divine Names and Writing Styles
Scholars have identified different writing styles and variations in the names used for God (e.g., Yahweh vs. Elohim) throughout the Pentateuch. These variations have led to the Documentary Hypothesis, which proposes that the Pentateuch is composed of multiple sources written by different authors and edited together over time.
These internal inconsistencies and details point to the idea that the Pentateuch may have been compiled from various sources over time rather than being authored solely by Moses.
Q: What scripture shows where Moses is third person in the Pentateuch? From ChatGPT 10/19/2024.
There are several places in the Pentateuch where Moses is referred to in the third person, indicating that someone other than Moses might have been involved in its composition or that Moses was writing about himself in a detached, third-person manner. Here are a few examples:
1. Exodus 11:3
“The Lord gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover, the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh’s servants and in the sight of the people.”
This verse refers to Moses as “the man Moses,” which is unusual if Moses were writing about himself. It suggests that the writer is describing Moses in the third person.
2. Exodus 33:11
“Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses turned again into the camp, his assistant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.”
In this passage, the writer talks about Moses in the third person and describes his actions and relationship with God, which seems to come from an external perspective.
3. Numbers 12:3
“(Now the man Moses was very meek, more than all people who were on the face of the earth.)”
This verse speaks of Moses in the third person and highlights his humility. It’s unlikely that someone would write such a statement about themselves.
4. Deuteronomy 34:5-7
“So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord, and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-peor; but no one knows the place of his burial to this day. Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eye was undimmed, and his vigor unabated.”
This is the most explicit example since it describes Moses’ death and burial, which Moses himself obviously could not have written. This passage is usually understood as having been written by a later editor or scribe.
These examples show that Moses is often referred to in the third person in the Pentateuch, suggesting an external perspective in the composition of these texts.
In the Youtube Video below Ross Nichols cites much of the same info as ChatGPT above and more. See the transcript in his directory in DropBox.
Video Chapters
- 0:00 Introduction
- 1:07 Seven References to Moses Writing (3rd Person)
- 15:21 Third Person Narration in Pentateuch
- 21:12 Other Clues of Other Authors
- 26:39 A Geographic Clue – Orientation of Writer
- 31:11 Narrative Differences
- 37:41 Who Recorded the Death of Moses?
See the transcript’s initial paragraphs that discuss the passages where Moses does write something.
- Exodus 17:14
- Exodus 24:4
- Exodus 34:27
- Numbers 33:2
- Deuteronomy 31:9
- Deuteronomy 31:22
- Deuteronomy 31:24
