This post contains extracts from Bart Ehrman’s post on October 20, 2026, An Even Stranger View of Eternity in the Book of Revelation. All emphasis is mine. All occurances of “I” is Dr. Ehrman.
In my previous post I pointed out that there seems to be an irony in the teachings of Jesus about the coming Kingdom of God. On one hand, it seems like it should be a completely utopian place where there are no longer any enemies of God or animosity and strife among humans, a return to the glory days (maybe literally only days) of the Garden of Eden. On the other hand, Jesus will be the “king” and his twelve disciples will be “co-rulers” in this kingdom. But why will they need a king and rulers? There is only now peace, harmony, love, and an eternal ecstatic existence without sin, suffering, pain, or misery caused by illegal or illicit activity, right? So what are the rulers going to be doing exactly?
This same irony is found in even more pronounced terms in the final book of the New Testament, the book of Revelation. In my book Armageddon I argue at some length that the values and priorities of Jesus are almost completely missing from this book. Rather than embracing views of mercy, forgiveness, service to others, we find a Christ who is out is out for blood (that’s not too strong a term for it: read the book!) in revenge for how he was treated here on earth. He destroys all of his enemies: the Devil, the “beast” (the anti-Christ figure), their superhuman supporters, all humans who have rejected Christ (in this book, it’s the vast majority of the human race), Hades, and Death itself – all of them are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Gone. Out of the way.
That takes up most of the opening chapters 1-20. And then in chapters 21-22 we learn of the New Heaven and the New Earth that God brings for his beloved saints, the only survivors of the massive onslaught against the world and its inhabitants. But the description of this new world, especially the “New Jerusalem,” not only beggars belief; it creates some serious narrative confusion.
Here is how I discuss the matter in my book Armageddon (Simon & Schuster, 2023).
Throughout his narrative John has described untold pain, misery, and suffering, but his book ends on a happy note, at least for the followers of Jesus who have survived. The universe as humans have known it – “the first heaven and first earth” – is taken away and God brings in a new one. This “New Jerusalem” will be the eternal home for the people of God, corresponding, though in much glorified fashion, to the original Jerusalem, site of God’s king, his temple, and his people. Those who enter this new city will feel no more sorrow: God will “wipe away every tear from their eyes and there will be no more death, suffering, weeping or pain” (Rev 21:4). They have “conquered” and now will inherit God’s gifts. They and no one else: all other inhabitants of earth, we are told again, have been tossed into the lake of fire.
The New Jerusalem is a marvel to behold. It is said to be a 12,000 “stadia” cube – that is, about 1500 miles long, wide, and high (Rev 21:16). Its length would be from about New York City to Oklahoma City, its width from Miami to Toronto, and its height, well, 1500 miles. We are never told why it needs to be so high. (Many levels? Amazing skyscrapers? Just on principle?) The city is made of “pure gold” (Rev 21:18). It has twelve foundations made of precious stones, and twelve gates (just twelve? for a city 1500 miles on each side?), each featuring a single pearl. The street (singular!) of the city is pure gold (Rev 21:21). There is no temple in the city – none is needed. God and his Lamb are worshiped directly. And there is no need for light. The glory of God provides all the light needed and the Lamb is the lamp (Rev 21:22).
Then, in one of the many glorious perplexities of the book, we are told the other nations on earth will walk by the light of the city. Kings of other lands will bring their resources into it and no one who “practices abomination or lying” will be allowed to enter, “only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Rev 21:24-27). The attentive reader (or even the inattentive one) will naturally wonder: what “other nations,” “kings,” and “sinners”? Weren’t they all just destroyed?
That particular mystery continues in chapter 22, where we are told that the tree of life in the middle of the street of the city will bring “healing for the nations,” and that the slaves of God (the saints) will worship him and “rule as kings forever” (Rev 22:2, 5). But rule whom? Who else is there? We are then told that outside the city of God are the “dogs, sorcerers, sexually immoral, murderers, idolaters, and liars” (Rev 22:15). But how did they escape the final judgment and the lake of fire? The book of Revelation is nothing if not puzzling.
My Summary for talking purposes.
Chapters 1-20: Rather than embracing views of mercy, forgiveness, service to others, we find a Christ who is out for blood (that’s not too strong a term for it: read the book!) in revenge for how he was treated here on earth. He destroys all of his enemies: the Devil, the “beast” (the anti-Christ figure), their superhuman supporters, all humans who have rejected Christ (in this book, it’s the vast majority of the human race), Hades, and Death itself – all of them are thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Chapter 21-22: Tells about – the New Heaven and the New Earth that God brings for his beloved saints, the only survivors of the massive onslaught against the world and its inhabitants.
BUT – We are told the other nations on earth will walk by the light of the city. Kings of other lands will bring their resources into it and no one who “practices abomination or lying” will be allowed to enter, “only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Rev 21:24-27). The attentive reader (or even the inattentive one) will naturally wonder: what “other nations,” “kings,” and “sinners”? Weren’t they all just destroyed?
Claude’s summary as talking points in a discussion.
Short Concise Talking Points
Bottom line: Ehrman argues that Revelation’s ending contradicts itself, and that its Christ has little in common with the Jesus of the Gospels.
Key points
- Jesus’ values are missing. Mercy, forgiveness, and service to others are almost absent from Revelation. Christ is a vengeful warrior who destroys his enemies.
- Almost everyone is destroyed. The Devil, the beast, their supporters, most of humanity, Hades, and Death are all thrown into the Lake of Fire (chs. 1-20).
- The New Jerusalem is extravagant. It is a gold cube about 1,500 miles on each side, with twelve pearl gates and a single street (Rev 21).
- The story contradicts itself. After the total destruction, chapters 21-22 still have nations, kings, and sinners outside the city. The saints “rule” and the tree heals “the nations,” even though no one is left to rule or heal.
- The framing irony. The same puzzle applies to the Gospels: why would a perfect kingdom need a king and co-rulers?
One-line takeaway for conversation: If everyone was destroyed, who are the nations and kings, and who are the saints ruling over?
Source: Bart D. Ehrman, blog post drawing on Armageddon (Simon & Schuster, 2023).
Longer Talking Points: The Puzzle of the New Jerusalem in Revelation
Source: Bart Ehrman’s blog post, drawing on his book Armageddon (Simon & Schuster, 2023)
1. The Framing Irony
- Jesus’ Kingdom of God sounds utopian: no enemies, no strife, a return to Eden.
- Yet the tradition has Jesus as “king” and the Twelve as “co-rulers.” Rulers over what? A perfect society shouldn’t need government.
- Revelation sharpens this irony rather than resolving it.
2. Revelation’s Jesus vs. the Gospels’ Jesus
- Ehrman argues the values of Jesus (mercy, forgiveness, service) are almost absent from Revelation.
- Instead, Christ is a vengeful warrior who destroys his enemies. Ehrman says “out for blood” isn’t too strong a term (cf. Rev 19:11-21).
- The Devil, the beast, their supernatural allies, most of humanity, Hades, and Death are all thrown into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:10-15).
- Chapters 1-20 are mostly this destruction and judgment.
3. The Happy Ending (Rev 21-22)
- A new heaven and earth replace the old. The saints are the only survivors.
- God will wipe away “every tear” and there will be no more death, mourning, or pain (Rev 21:4, NRSV).
- The New Jerusalem is the saints’ eternal home, a glorified counterpart to the original Jerusalem.
4. The City’s Strange Details
- Dimensions: a cube of 12,000 stadia, roughly 1,500 miles on each side. Ehrman wryly asks why it needs to be so tall (Rev 21:16).
- Materials: pure gold, twelve gem foundations, and twelve gates, each a single pearl.
- One street: the text says “street” in the singular, in a city the size of a subcontinent (Rev 21:21).
- No temple, no sun: God and the Lamb are worshiped directly and provide the light (Rev 21:22-23).
- Ehrman’s tone here is playful: the description “beggars belief.”
5. The Narrative Contradiction (the heart of the post)
- Nations and kings still exist. The nations walk by the city’s light, and kings bring their “glory” into it (Rev 21:24, NRSV). But weren’t they all destroyed?
- Healing is needed. The tree of life brings “healing of the nations” (Rev 22:2), yet there is supposedly no more pain or death.
- The saints rule. They “reign forever and ever” (Rev 22:5, NRSV). But over whom, if everyone else is dead?
- Sinners remain outside. “Dogs,” sorcerers, the sexually immoral, murderers, idolaters, and liars are outside the city (Rev 22:15). How did they escape the Lake of Fire?
- Ehrman’s verdict: “The book of Revelation is nothing if not puzzling.”
6. Connecting Back to the Opening Question
- Revelation’s saints-as-rulers mirrors the Gospel puzzle about Jesus’ co-rulers. In both cases a “perfect” kingdom still seems to have subjects.
7. Counterpoints to Raise (to keep the conversation balanced)
These come from the wider scholarly discussion, not from Ehrman’s post, so verify them against specific commentaries (e.g., G. K. Beale, David Aune) before citing.
- Borrowed imagery: John is drawing on prophetic texts like Isaiah 60, where nations and kings stream to a glorified Jerusalem. He may be reusing that imagery without worrying about strict internal consistency.
- Symbolic reading: the cube shape evokes the Holy of Holies in Solomon’s temple (1 Kings 6:20). The measurements may signal that the whole city is sacred space, not a literal architectural plan.
- Apocalyptic genre: visions are not systematic timelines, so apparent tensions may be intentional or simply a feature of the genre.
- Alternative harmonizations: some interpreters read the “nations” as redeemed peoples from every ethnicity, and the outsiders as a rhetorical warning rather than a literal group.
8. Good Discussion Questions
- Should we expect internal consistency in an apocalyptic vision, or is Ehrman asking too much of the genre?
- If the “nations” are redeemed people, why does the text still describe outsiders?
- How should we weigh Revelation’s vengeful Christ against the Christ of the Gospels?
- Does the tension reflect an author drawing on competing prophetic traditions?
Sources: Bart D. Ehrman, blog post on the Kingdom of God and Revelation; Armageddon: What the Bible Really Says about the End (Simon & Schuster, 2023). Scripture quotations from the New Testament are NRSV.
