Some early church fathers considered the book to be heretical. Some argued it was a propaganda piece to encourage loyalty to the church; scare them to death, and then sell them protection. A kind of protection racket.
Below is Claude.ai’s summary of Bart Ehrman’s post here titled The Book of Revelation: When and Why?. His post is an extract from his textbook.
Here’s a summary of Bart Ehrman’s text on the Book of Revelation:
Historical Context and Purpose
Revelation was likely written around 95 CE during Emperor Domitian’s reign, though some portions may date to Nero’s time in the early 60s CE. The book addresses Christians facing persecution and opposition, with Rome as the clear enemy that God will destroy.
Key Symbolic Images
The Great Whore of Babylon (Revelation 17): A woman seated on a beast with seven heads, clothed in fine garments, drunk with martyrs’ blood. The seven heads represent seven mountains—identifying her as Rome, the city built on seven hills. She’s called “Babylon” because Rome, like ancient Babylon, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.
The Beast with Number 666 (Revelation 13): A beast with ten horns and many heads, one receiving a mortal wound that heals. The beast makes war on the saints and demands worship. The number 666 identifies the beast as Caesar Nero—when his name is spelled in Hebrew letters, they add up to 666. The mortal wound likely refers to the tradition that Nero would return from death.
Main Message
Ehrman emphasizes that Revelation isn’t predicting events 2,000 years in the future. It was written for its own time, promising that God would soon overthrow the Roman Empire and its emperors who persecuted Christians and demanded divine worship. The book encouraged suffering Christians to hold on—Christ would soon return in judgment, destroy evil Rome, vindicate the faithful, and establish God’s eternal kingdom.
In his post The Book of Revelation: Who Wrote It? here, Ehrman adds:
Some writers of the early church mention two prominent figures named John: Jesus’ own disciple, who was taken to be the author of the Fourth Gospel, and the “Elder John” who wrote Revelation. These books do have radically different writing style, so it is unlikely they were written by the same person.
Their differences have been recognized for, well, eighteen centuries! The case was made most compellingly around 260 CE by a prominent bishop of Alexandria named Dionysius, in long letter quoted by the fourth-century church historian Eusebius (Church History 7.25).
Below is ChatGPT’s response to “Who, during the selection of the books of the Bible, argues that the Book of Revelation was heretical? Cite the sources.”
The selection of the biblical canon, particularly in relation to the Book of Revelation, was a subject of intense debate during the early centuries of Christianity. Some early Christian theologians and leaders argued against its inclusion, often viewing it as heretical or problematic due to its apocalyptic nature and ambiguous interpretation.
Key Opponents to Revelation’s Inclusion
- Dionysius of Alexandria (3rd century):
- Dionysius, a prominent Alexandrian theologian, questioned the authorship of Revelation, arguing that its language and style differed significantly from that of the Gospel of John. He attributed it to another “John” rather than the Apostle.
- Dionysius did not outright condemn the book as heretical, but his skepticism contributed to its controversial status in some regions.
- Source: Eusebius of Caesarea, Ecclesiastical History, Book 7, Chapter 25.
- Gaius of Rome (late 2nd/early 3rd century):
- Gaius, a Roman presbyter, rejected Revelation outright and attributed it to the heretic Cerinthus, claiming that it promoted millenarian views (the belief in a literal thousand-year reign of Christ on Earth), which he found objectionable.
- Source: Eusebius of Caesarea, Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Chapter 28.
- Eusebius of Caesarea (4th century):
- Although Eusebius did not personally reject Revelation, he classified it as one of the “disputed books” (antilegomena) in the early Church. He documented the hesitations of others and noted that some considered it non-apostolic or even heretical.
- Source: Eusebius of Caesarea, Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Chapter 25.
- Eastern Church Leaders:
- Revelation was not widely accepted in the early Eastern Christian tradition. Key figures like Cyril of Jerusalem and John Chrysostom omitted it from their canonical lists, possibly due to its enigmatic symbolism and associations with heretical millenarian movements.
Broader Context
- Montanism: This apocalyptic movement, active in the 2nd century, extensively used Revelation to support its beliefs. The association of Revelation with Montanism, considered heretical by mainstream Christianity, further fueled skepticism about the book’s orthodoxy. [Montanism is seen by some modern scholars as parallel with modern-day Protestant movements, such as the Charismatic movement, as well as Pentecostalism (including Oneness Pentecostals).]
Final Canonization
Despite these objections, Revelation gained widespread acceptance in the Western Church by the 4th century, largely due to its defense by influential figures like Athanasius of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo.
Jump to a ChatGPT response about Revelations being edited to be a Christian book.
Tabor’s Links:
- The Destruction of Pompeii and the New Testament Book of Revelation. It contains the following quote.
- Long ignored archaeological evidence – found beneath the ashes of Pompeii and Herculaneum – seems to suggest that what put the fear of God into pagan Romans was not Jesus, Peter or Paul. It now seems that the event most responsible for Christianity’s conquest of the Roman Empire was…the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius.
- [Tabor] became convinced that Revelation 18 is an eyewitness account, very much parallel to that of Pliny the Younger, of the August 79 CE destruction of Pompeii–but understood by the writer as signaling the fall of Babylon the Great–namely, the demise of the Roman Empire itself! Most scholars agree that the prophecies of the book of Revelation can be dated variously from the end of the reign of Nero through the Flavians (68-80s CE). The author of chapter 18 of Revelation provides us with a poetic oracle against the “great city” pictured as a “whore” riding the seven-headed beast of the Roman Empire–drunk with the blood of the martyrs and the saints.
- Ancient Jewish and Early Christian Millennialism
- G. R. Beasley-Murray’s “How Christian is the Book of Revelation?”
- Can A Pre-Christian Version of the Book of Revelation Be Recovered? by James Tabor, 2/22/2017. In that article he recommends for further reading Josephine Masssyngberde Ford in her volume on Revelation in the Anchor Bible Commentary series (now Anchor Yale Bible Commentary, edited by J. J. Collins).
- One thing I had noticed in my own work on the Book of Revelation over the years was that the explicit references to either “Jesus” “Christ,” or “Jesus Christ” outside the letters to the churches of chapters 2 & 3 are mostly clustered in chapters 1 and 22, with few in the middle chapters.
But what is even more astounding, to me at least, was the observation that nearly all of these references can be easily removed without detracting in any way from the structure or flow of the passages in which they occur. In other words, one could get the distinct impression that references to Jesus Christ lay quite lightly on the text and could even be seen as secondary interpolations.
In the references below I have put these interpolative elements bold italicized brackets. This exercise strongly suggests that these are later additions to an original Jewish text inserted to “Christianize” a book that in its origins had nothing to do with Jesus. This is a rather astounding phenomenon and once one sees it it seems clear that the underlying original text remains intact and makes complete sense without these references: [click to go there]
- One thing I had noticed in my own work on the Book of Revelation over the years was that the explicit references to either “Jesus” “Christ,” or “Jesus Christ” outside the letters to the churches of chapters 2 & 3 are mostly clustered in chapters 1 and 22, with few in the middle chapters.
- A Pre-Christian Version of the Book of Revelation!” by James Tabor. …offers a hypothetical reconstruction of what such a text might have looked like.
- See the directory Revelations in his directory in DropBox for more.
The Destruction of Pompeii—God’s Revenge? – Biblical Archeological Review ^ | Jul/Aug 2010 | Hershel Shanks
Note that the links below are listed with the most recent first.
Bart Ehrman’s conversation with Megan at Does John of Patmos accept the Gospel of Jesus? is the source for the extracts of his comments below.
Megan – Who wrote Revelations? Was he John son of Zebedee?
- Bart: “Including early on in his account he has a vision of the throne room of God with 24 elders around the throne worshiping God eternally, and it’s usually interpreted that these are the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles. Well, this author’s not seeing himself, and so there are reasons like that. So we don’t really know who this person was.”
- Bart: We do know that he was a prophet. In other words, someone who’s understood to be a leader of the Christian community, who taught people in Asia Minor, which is modern Turkey, which would be on the western coast of Turkey today, and was known to the churches that he’s writing to. He’s writing to seven churches. He’s known to them. He’s known to be a prophet, and he appears to be in exile on an island off of Turkey called Patmos.
Megan – Do we know what his purpose behind writing the book of Revelation was? Bart: “…his enemies are just about everybody on earth. And so the vast majority of the human population will be destroyed by God, including Christians. Not all the Christians. The Christians who have the point of view that John himself represents will be saved for and be given glorious rewards. But other Christians, along with all the Jews and all the pagans, will be viciously destroyed.
Megan – Would you say then that the destruction of the unworthy is one of the key messages of Revelation? Bart: …that’s how he understands his book, that it’s how God is going to pour out his wrath very soon, and that everybody except for the very close followers of Jesus who do it correctly, everyone else is going to be destroyed. Jesus is portrayed in the book:
- as the glorious resurrected Son of Man who is in charge of the world.
- later in Chapter 4, He’s portrayed as a lamb that has been slain.
- He’s later portrayed as a divine warrior who comes on a horse from heaven at the Battle of Armageddon. And so there are various images in this.
- the controlling image is that Christ was the one who was killed by his enemies, who is now coming back in vengeance. And He is going to make them pay for what they did.
- this Lamb who was slain is the one who sends all the calamities on the earth. He is the one who sends plagues, and wars, and famines, and slaughter. And the Lamb is specifically the one who does this.
So what will Jesus do? …in the Greek, in chapter 18, the people of God are told to come out of the sinful city, and they are supposed to pay back double the persecutions that have been given to them. They’re supposed to slaughter the enemy in chapter 18. And so there are instructions in this book for human violence against the enemies of God. And so, rather than turn the other cheek, or love your enemy, or care for others, you’re supposed to kill them, violently kill them.
Megan – How does he compare to the Jesus that we see in the rest of the New Testament in the Gospels?
- Jesus himself did not, unlike the author of Revelation, did not propose that people engage in violence.
- Jesus thought that people should turn the other cheek, that people should love their enemies, they should pray for those who persecute them. I think he was concerned that you try to convert the people who are hurting you rather than try to hurt them in exchange. And so I think that that is very different from the author of the book Revelation.
“There are a couple of big-picture issues that I [Bart] think stand diametrically opposed to Jesus.“
- Violence/Domination:
- And so it’s all about domination. But the author of Revelation endorses it. He endorses the broad Roman view—it’s just the ancient view, it’s still the modern view—that domination is good. And so I think it’s completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
- And like most people today who are Christians, who believe that they should exercise their power, he’s got it wrong. Jesus urged service. He did not urge power, let alone exploitation.
- Wealth:
- In the Gospels, Jesus is opposed to people being rich. It’s not that he says you should be generous….He tells people to sell everything. Your treasures, you’re going to be given the kingdom of God where you’re going to be in the presence of God, and you’re going to realize what true happiness is, and it’s not in your possessions. You’re not going to be given mansions. So that’s what [Jesus] says.
- In the book of Revelation;
- it’s all about wealth. God is portrayed as incredibly wealthy with all these jewels and things all around his throne, and people have these golden crowns with jewels in them.
- And the New Jerusalem that comes down to replace this current world is a city that is 1,500 miles cubed. So it goes basically from, say, Kansas City to New York and from Toronto down to Miami. It’s that size city, and it’s that high as well, and it’s made of pure gold with gates made of pearls. And it’s going to be fabulously wealthy. And the whole point of the book of Revelation is that wealth is bad now because the Romans have it. God’s going to take their wealth and give it to people who deserve it, his followers. And so it’s a redistribution not to the poor needy, but to the Christians, and Christians are then going to have a glorious, unbelievably wealthy afterlife. And it’s just the opposite of what Jesus said.
From OpenAI. (2024). ChatGPT [Large language model]. https://chatgpt.com, 11/25/2024
Prompt – Do any critical bible scholars believe that the Book of Revelation was originally a Jewish text before it was Christianized by a Christian redactor? Cite all sources at the end of the response and scriptures from the NRSV.
The idea that the Book of Revelation may have originated as a Jewish apocalyptic text that was later adapted or “Christianized” is a minority view among biblical scholars, but it has been proposed by some critical academics. This hypothesis is based on textual, thematic, and historical analysis of Revelation’s content and structure. Scholars who entertain this theory generally emphasize the following points:
1. Jewish Apocalyptic Elements in Revelation
- Imagery and Themes: Revelation is heavily rooted in Jewish apocalyptic literature, such as the Book of Daniel, Ezekiel, and Zechariah. It uses imagery like beasts, trumpets, and divine judgments that are hallmarks of Jewish apocalyptic tradition.
- Lack of Explicit Christian Language in Some Passages: Certain sections of Revelation are less explicitly Christian, relying instead on broader Jewish theological themes, such as God’s sovereignty, the coming judgment, and the vindication of God’s people.
- Use of Hebrew Scriptures: Revelation alludes to the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) extensively, often without overt Christian reinterpretation.
2. Textual Evidence for Possible Redaction
- Structural Discontinuities: Some scholars point to abrupt transitions or inconsistencies in the text as evidence of later additions. For instance, passages emphasizing Christ’s central role might be viewed as interpolations into an earlier Jewish apocalyptic framework.
- Christological Insertions: References to Jesus as the Lamb (e.g., Revelation 5:6–14) or as the one through whom salvation comes (e.g., Revelation 7:10) could be seen as Christian additions to a text that otherwise aligns closely with Jewish apocalyptic expectations.
3. Historical Context
- Jewish-Christian Overlap: In the late first century CE, when Revelation was likely written, there was significant overlap between Jewish and Christian communities. This shared context could explain why a Jewish text might have been adopted and adapted by a Christian author or community.
- Responses to Roman Oppression: Both Jewish and Christian apocalyptic literature often addressed the shared experience of persecution under Roman rule, making the adoption of a Jewish text plausible.
Notable Proponents of This View
Scholars like R.H. Charles, who wrote extensively on Revelation, suggested that it may have Jewish origins but acknowledged significant Christian redaction. This view, however, is not widely accepted, as most scholars argue that the text was composed as a distinctly Christian work by John of Patmos, albeit heavily influenced by Jewish traditions.
Counterarguments
- Unity of the Text: Many scholars contend that Revelation demonstrates a consistent theological and literary vision that suggests it was composed as a Christian text from the outset.
- Christological Focus: The centrality of Christ as the Lamb and as the agent of God’s judgment is woven throughout the text, making it unlikely to be a later addition.
- Distinctiveness of the Writing: The Greek style and theological focus of Revelation differ from the Gospel of John and the Johannine Epistles, leading some scholars to propose that John of Patmos was a different person. However, early Christian tradition tended to harmonize such differences, attributing them to the variety of contexts or divine inspiration.
- Early Debates and Acceptance
- Some early Christian leaders, such as Dionysius of Alexandria (3rd century), questioned whether John the Apostle and John of Patmos were the same person due to differences in style and theology between Revelation and the Gospel/epistles attributed to John.
- Despite these debates, the association with John the Apostle persisted in much of the church, largely due to the strong testimony of early figures like Irenaeus and its inclusion in the canon.
Biblical Passages Reflecting Jewish Influence (NRSV)
- Revelation 4:6–8: The imagery of the four living creatures around the throne echoes Ezekiel 1 and Isaiah 6.
- Revelation 7:1–8: The sealing of the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel highlights the Jewish heritage.
- Revelation 21:1–3: The new Jerusalem recalls themes from Isaiah 65:17–25.
Sources
- R.H. Charles, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Revelation of St. John (1920).
- Craig R. Koester, Revelation: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary (2000).
- David Aune, Revelation (3 vols., Word Biblical Commentary, 1997–1998).
- Adela Yarbro Collins, Crisis and Catharsis: The Power of the Apocalypse (1984).
From OpenAI. (2024). ChatGPT [Large language model]. https://chatgpt.com
Prompt: What do critical bible scholars say how Jesus’ description of God was different from the description in the Book of Revelation?
Critical Bible scholars often highlight significant differences between Jesus’ portrayal of God in the Gospels and the depiction of God in the Book of Revelation. These differences can be understood in terms of tone, emphasis, and theological focus, reflecting distinct literary styles, purposes, and contexts. Here’s a breakdown of the key contrasts:
Jesus’ Description of God (Gospels)
- A Loving and Forgiving Father
- Jesus frequently emphasizes God as a loving, merciful, and forgiving Father.
- “Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.” (Luke 6:36, NRSV)
- “For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.” (Matthew 5:45, NRSV)
- God is depicted as actively seeking to save the lost (e.g., parables of the Prodigal Son, the Lost Sheep).
- Jesus frequently emphasizes God as a loving, merciful, and forgiving Father.
- God as a Personal and Relational Deity
- Jesus encourages intimate, personal relationships with God through prayer, referring to Him as Abba (Aramaic for “Father”).
- “Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.” (Matthew 6:9, NRSV)
- Jesus encourages intimate, personal relationships with God through prayer, referring to Him as Abba (Aramaic for “Father”).
- God’s Kingdom of Peace and Justice
- Jesus emphasizes God’s kingdom as a realm of peace, justice, and righteousness that begins with personal transformation and extends to the world.
- “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.” (Matthew 5:9, NRSV)
- Jesus emphasizes God’s kingdom as a realm of peace, justice, and righteousness that begins with personal transformation and extends to the world.
God in Revelation
- A Sovereign Judge
- In Revelation, God is portrayed primarily as a cosmic ruler and judge, bringing judgment upon the wicked and establishing divine justice.
- “Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, ‘Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.’” (Revelation 16:1, NRSV)
- In Revelation, God is portrayed primarily as a cosmic ruler and judge, bringing judgment upon the wicked and establishing divine justice.
- God’s Wrath and Retribution
- The imagery in Revelation emphasizes God’s wrath against sin and rebellion.
- “For the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Revelation 6:17, NRSV)
- The imagery in Revelation emphasizes God’s wrath against sin and rebellion.
- Apocalyptic and Majestic God
- Revelation presents God in an apocalyptic context, surrounded by heavenly beings, thunder, lightning, and a sea of glass, emphasizing transcendence and glory.
- “And the one seated there looks like jasper and carnelian, and around the throne is a rainbow that looks like an emerald.” (Revelation 4:3, NRSV)
- Revelation presents God in an apocalyptic context, surrounded by heavenly beings, thunder, lightning, and a sea of glass, emphasizing transcendence and glory.
- Vindication and Cosmic Warfare
- The focus is on God as the ultimate victor in the cosmic struggle between good and evil, bringing about the new heaven and new earth.
- “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.” (Revelation 21:1, NRSV)
- The focus is on God as the ultimate victor in the cosmic struggle between good and evil, bringing about the new heaven and new earth.
Critical Scholars’ Perspectives
- Differences in Context and Genre
- The Gospels are written as narratives emphasizing Jesus’ life and teachings, focused on love, mercy, and personal discipleship.
- Revelation is an apocalyptic text, using symbolic and dramatic imagery to communicate a cosmic struggle and ultimate divine victory.
- Evolving Theology
- Some scholars argue that Revelation reflects a later stage of Christian theology, addressing persecution and the desire for vindication. Its tone may cater to communities seeking reassurance that God’s justice would ultimately prevail.
- Jesus vs. Apocalyptic Expectations
- Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels emphasize present action (e.g., forgiveness, peace, and love), while Revelation looks to a future resolution through divine intervention.
- Interpreting Revelation’s Imagery
- Scholars often see Revelation’s depiction of God as symbolic rather than literal, designed to evoke awe and encourage perseverance amidst persecution, rather than providing a full theology of God’s nature.
Summary
Jesus’ description of God in the Gospels highlights love, forgiveness, and relational closeness, aligning with His message of grace and the arrival of God’s kingdom on earth. In contrast, Revelation portrays God as a transcendent and sovereign judge, emphasizing apocalyptic justice and cosmic power. Critical scholars view these differences as a reflection of distinct literary genres, historical contexts, and theological aims, rather than contradictions.
